LHP Occult 012: Religious Tolerance of Satanists

, , 49 Comments


Hi, my name is Jeremy crow and I’d just
like to take a moment to discuss religious tolerance and freedom of
religion within the occult community. Now what happens a lot of times is you see
Christians telling pagans that they are being deceived by Satan; that in fact
they are practicing Satanism unbeknownst to themselves. And pagans will typically
defend themselves by saying, “No we’re not Satanists. This is why. This is a
difference…” You know? And that’s totally fine. I think that that’s good and right
and something that should be done however sometimes people take it in a
different way. They defend themselves by saying something along the lines of, “Stop
bothering us. We’re not Satanists, so stop bothering us.” Implying that if they were
Satanists then they have the right to be bothered. I mean that the Christians have
a right to bother Satanists. No, that’s not right. Religion is an individual’s
choice and we’re supposed to have freedom of religion, even if that
religion is Satanism. I’ll give you an example here of some of this that I’ve
seen in the community. I read an article recently about a little girl who went to
public school and she wore her pagan necklace that had a pentagram on it. Her
substitute teacher told her that she needed to cover it up and tuck it into
her shirt but didn’t tell any of the other students who had other different
religious symbols such as crosses to hide their religious symbols.
So she singled this child out for being pagan. And now the substitute teacher was fired
but a commenter on that article said, “What was that substitute teacher doing?
You know, it’s not like it was an inverted Satanic pentagram. It was a
pagan pentagram.” You know? Well what if it had been an inverted satanic pentagram?
Would the teacher have been right in telling the child to hide their
religious symbol and not telling anyone else to hide theirs? No. That’s wrong.
Even if it’s a Satanist. A Satanist should have freedom of religion as well.
Another example, I think about a year ago, I read an article, a news article about a
pagan religious supply shop in the United States that was being targeted by
Christians with religious propaganda that apparently was quite inflammatory
and told them that they were being duped by Satan and practicing Satanism
unbeknownst to themselves. Talking back saying, “Listen, stop bothering us. We’re
not Satanists!” So, well what would you have said if you were… what if you had
set up a Satanic religious supply shop and were selling Satanic books and
then pretty much everything else. We see almost the same contents in the store.
How would you defend yourself against a Christian campaign of religious
intolerance against you if you actually had been Satanists, you know? By saying,
“Stop bothering us, we’re not Satanists” is not helping the cause of religious
tolerance and religious freedom and you’re alienating yourselves from the
Satanists who are probably going to be much better allies.
Christian’s, part of their core belief system is that anybody who’s
not Christian, pretty much, especially pagans (and of course self-declared
Satanists and Luciferian) that they are Satanists even if they don’t realize it
themselves. They believe that your gods and goddesses are actually demons
masquerading as gods and goddesses in order to trick you into worshiping them.
This is core fundamental Christian belief that you are not going to change.
Doesn’t matter how many pagans are out there saying, “We’re not Satanists.” The
Christians still think that you are being duped by Satan, you know? You’re not
going to change that belief. You’re not going to gain tolerance for your
religion from Christians because they don’t believe that your religion is
valid and they never will. Satanists, on the other hand, other left-hand path
occult practitioners: Luciferian, Setians… These are the people that
understand what you’re talking about when you say, “I’m not Satanist and this
is why…” These are the people that will defend your religious freedoms, you know?
Show some respect back, you know? I know that there are a lot of pagans that
do support the Religious Freedom of Satanists and Luciferians and such
but I’m more talking to the people who don’t. Just think about it for a
moment. When, you know… who is most likely to come smashing down your door
and tearing your altar down, you know? It’s not the Satanists! The Satanists
will be there fighting with you if that were to happen, you know? Just think about
it for a moment before you speak. Instead of saying, “Don’t! Stop bothering us. We’re
not Satanists!” Say, “Stop bothering us. We should be tolerated for our unique
beliefs and so should everyone else.” You know? You’re not going to gain any kind
of mainstream tolerance or recognition from the Christians. And I see this in
the Luciferian community as well! A lot of Luciferians try to separate
themselves from Satanism in order to convince the mainstream that we aren’t
evil. They say, “Listen! We’re not Satanists! Lucifer is not Satan, and
Lucifer means this and that and you don’t understand… You’re using the term
wrong.” But Christians are never going to believe it. They’re still going to think
that Luciferians are Satanists and Satanists are Luciferians and Pagans and
Heathens… Heathens are another group that really try to distance themselves from
Satanism. Let’s just face facts. Christians believe that you are
Satanists. It’s a core fundamental belief of theirs and it’s never going to change,
you know? Let’s start helping each other out and fighting for religious freedom
together.

 

49 Responses

  1. ScreamsFromTheAbyss

    January 18, 2012 10:48 pm

    Excellent video Jeremy and agreed. Here on Youtube and also on Temple Iluminatus there are a few Pagans who have no problems with Satanists, or LHP'ers, unfortunately theres quite a few who unfortunately do. Pagans who are playing the "Good Guy Badge" towards Christians are not doing themselves any favours, they're begging for acceptance from the one quarter (i.e. Christianity) who would wipe their religion out if they could.

    Reply
  2. Jeremy Crow

    January 19, 2012 1:08 am

    @ScreamsFromTheAbyss Exactly. Trying to gain their acceptance through convincing them that they do not worship Satan is a battle that cannot be won.

    Reply
  3. LadySorrowIshana

    January 19, 2012 2:20 am

    So what if the god(s) they worship are daemons. In my opinion the Christian God is also a daemon because he is allegedly battling for the souls of mankind and that is the work of greater daemons from my experience, as their powers are made up of the souls of lesser daemons that combine to create their strengths, like our powers and recognition is dependent upon those who pay attention to us or give us that power.

    Reply
  4. Ernesto Gallardo

    January 19, 2012 3:07 am

    You must understand that most(95%) of all christians think that anyone that is not part of their faith is either going to hell or is being deceived one way or the other. So reasoning with christians is like talking to a wall because they will not be satisfied until every head bows to Y'sehua Bin Yousef. I'm not surprised that NeoPagans would turn against Satanists or other occultists because even they don't know that Satanists don't worship Satan.

    Reply
  5. Laurie Pneumatikos

    January 20, 2012 7:05 pm

    Another excellent video with a timely message Jer. That definitely needed to be said, and I like the non-threatening, factual, logical way that you presented it. I plan to post the link to this video to my FB page, Pagan meet-up page, and blogs.

    Reply
  6. nikthedick123

    January 22, 2012 1:14 am

    not only that, but absolutely EVERYTHING in christianity comes from pagan religions. satan, jesus, prayer, baptism, cannibalism (eating and drinking the flesh and blood of jesus christ), yadda yadda yadda. catholics especially are a mirror image of paganism. christians have no room to talk.

    Reply
  7. Will Baker

    January 23, 2012 11:34 pm

    The worst is when they say stuff like "we're not satanists/luciferians..we don't sacrifice babies/animals/etc"..welll, NEITHER DO MOST OF US!

    Reply
  8. Candy Delicia

    January 28, 2012 11:58 am

    you are right i am going to stick to people that actually believe in freedom of religion. i may not believe in satan but i know lucifer is a light bringer since he is diana's twin. well i knew about satanist by name until just today i found out wbout luciferian religion. but you guys and satanist seem to be more understanding to other pagan religions than Christians will ever be. i never had an issue with satanists or actually ever met one before.

    Reply
  9. Arabella Stevenson

    January 31, 2012 4:06 am

    Very well said. Its funny how we get it from all sorts of white light religious out there lol. Everyone likes to bash us both christian and pagan alike. Though I have met more pagans that accept my beliefs than christians that fact remains that we still get the bad end of things by everyone. But that is ok I like that cause I like a challenge. In nomine patris Satan!

    Reply
  10. Oz Noxious

    February 6, 2012 2:13 am

    @calebandstef : Satan coming from the meaning of the word in it's origin,from Ancient Hebrew meaning"Adversary" and in other contexts"Unseen enemy that tests You".
    In Satanism(LaVeyan)You are your own God,and Your worst enemy is You.
    You are Your own Satan,and in Satanism it is all about self acceptance(The "good"and the "bad")
    In Thelemic numerology,"5" is the number of Man."3" is the holy number of Completion(or God),"15"is the number of Satan.Add 5×3=15.
    hope I helped a bit!

    Reply
  11. Jarma

    February 14, 2012 11:44 am

    i understand ur point, but if someone is a satanist, they are the ultimate enemy and no real christian could ever tolerate that. furthermore, to be a satanist is pure lunacy because christianity creates satanism and to be a satanist is to be a christian, u just believe in the bad guy.

    Reply
  12. Jarma

    February 14, 2012 11:46 am

    true satanists dont believe satan exists. they just feel its essential to embody the darkness to break free of christian repression. but if ur running around just doing the opposite, ur not free at all. its more loberating to live your truth than deliberately be the opposite of something u dont like. so satanism doesnt exist at all. so whats the point?

    Reply
  13. Jeremy Crow

    February 14, 2012 12:13 pm

    @aelius93 That is a common misunderstanding of Satanism. The term "Satan" is obviously borrowed from Abrahamic religious tradition, but that does not make a Satanist a believer in those traditions. This is a limitation on language. It is more about archetypes than about specific names. Look at Setians for a good example.

    Reply
  14. Jeremy Crow

    February 14, 2012 12:19 pm

    @aelius93 While some do embrace Satanism as a simple inversion of their former Christian beliefs, there are many who were never even raised Christian in the first place. Those who were former Christians will often find it empowering to be able to take something they were so engaged with in the past, and reinterpret it, often from a more Gnostic perspective, to something they find personally meaningful. This isn't a dull inversion, it is an ancient art form.

    Reply
  15. GazMysticism

    February 16, 2012 5:36 pm

    I don't know why anyone belongs to any system of belief…neither Satanist or Christian..dual opposites but the same…dividing themselves against one another over a silly belief.

    Reply
  16. Mark Hughes

    March 12, 2012 10:32 pm

    What's the difference between a satanist and a luciferian then? Really, I dunno, what is it, anyone?

    Reply
  17. greenspiraldragon

    July 3, 2012 6:44 pm

    We spent hundreds of years trying to combat the misinformation about witchcraft/wicca/paganism being associated with devil worshiping and satanism, why should we not embrace it? I support your right to religious freedom but I want no association with you.

    Reply
  18. joshua couldren

    July 22, 2012 5:58 pm

    well for one i believe true up right pagans believe in harming none not your self or any life at all were nature based people and follow ways of the oldest religion on the planet honoring all the gods and goddesses of heaven and the great mother maiden crone that gave birth to all blessed be im pagan my self and indian there were and still are many spirit deites that work under the same holy grail like jesus was a great wizard sent to earth to help people from the mother goddess sent him to us

    Reply
  19. Thomas LeRoy

    July 28, 2012 3:43 am

    Thanks for the very balanced view of Satanism. You understand it, while most others don't. (Some of these comments are proof of that!)

    Reply
  20. Jeremy Crow

    September 23, 2012 1:57 am

    @HouseholdGardening Actually, pentacle can mean a variety of things and not all of them are even in the shape of a star. See the Greater Key of Solomon for a bunch of examples. Pentagram is the most accurate term for the simple geometric shape of the 5 pointed star we all think of, whether it has a single point up or down and not enclosed in a circle.

    Reply
  21. Adam Mann

    October 27, 2012 3:16 am

    I agree Jeremy. I am Pagan, yet lean strongly toward the Left Hand path. I can think of alot of Pagans who know nothing about Satanism/Luciferianism and end up treating it just the same as Xians do. This video is a nice breath of fresh air and perhaps a wake-up call to many Pagans. Love your videos, keep up the great work!

    Reply
  22. chantalspring

    November 20, 2012 5:57 am

    Practice what ever faith/ or religion you wish, just do not push them on others or tell them how to judge other faith/religions as well or you are just as guilty as they are for what you are telling all who view this video.

    Reply
  23. Jeremy Crow

    November 21, 2012 10:54 am

    @chantalspring I'm not telling people how to judge the religious beliefs of others in their own heart. I'm simply suggesting that certain behavioirs promote religious tolerance and freedom of religion for all and that religious freedom for some but not all isn't really religious freedom.

    Reply
  24. Jeremy Crow

    November 21, 2012 11:04 am

    @Ragnarulf Logr Thanks for sharing that! As I mentioned in the video, Heathens tend to be one of the groups that take pains to distance themselves from being associated with any form of Satanism. It was actually only this year that I became aware that Edred Thorson was one of the pen names of Stephen Flowers of the Temple of Set. For those who aren't aware, the TOS was formed through a schism within the Church of Satan. Thanks again for sharing that info!

    Reply
  25. Unum Sumus

    December 6, 2012 9:36 pm

    Ok so Im really interested by these topics. Can anyone help me understand more? My issue with Satanism (and I could be wrong) is that it seems to place oneself above others. Theres alot of Satanist symbolism in media (especially music videos) which associate themselves with sexual lust and other things that tend to destroy the fabric of society and returns the common man to animus status. Instead, we should be moving forward not backwards. And the best way to do that is by doing it collectively

    Reply
  26. Unum Sumus

    December 6, 2012 9:39 pm

    Basically, I get the impression that Satanism encourages the suppression (and dumbing down) of society in order to create slaves or obedient idiots. This notion causes conflict (war and suffering). So Satanism tends to ignore the spiritual concept of a collective consciousness experiencing itself subjectively through us in this world (as quantum physics is finding today). Instead, it seeks to use the empowerment of consciousness to suppress other humans and thus wield more power for themselves.

    Reply
  27. Jeremy Crow

    December 6, 2012 10:54 pm

    Hi Trey. There are actually a lot of Luciferians who do not believe in any sort of god. They take Luciferianism as a type of philosophy and see Lucifer as an archetype. I myself lean more toward the philosophical type of Luciferianism.

    Reply
  28. Caleb Carter

    April 14, 2013 11:43 am

    excellent point but i think the hardline neo pagan groups promote them selfs by saying were not devil worshipers. i see this on thousands of face book post they would start there very own burning times

    Reply
  29. qwyzl

    May 29, 2013 9:40 pm

    going by what some of what you said, "christians" are actually Satanists. "satan" means to oppose, or adversary. and "christians" oppose every one who doesn't believe what they believe, and are adversaries against all those of any other belief.

    Reply
  30. Jeremy Crow

    June 12, 2013 1:56 pm

    Some people value maintaining their own individuality rather than conforming to the collective. I've got my own way of thinking and being and my own goals that are different from yours.

    Reply
  31. Jeremy Crow

    June 12, 2013 2:04 pm

    Humans are naturally hierarchical. This makes us susceptible to bullies and con-men who know how to utilize the emblems of authority. I agree with you in that regard. On the flip side of the coin, because these things do impact us so strongly, we can harness these methods to more powerfully enact desired changes within ourselves. Take the power back!

    Reply
  32. Jeremy Crow

    June 12, 2013 2:17 pm

    I totally see what you're getting at but labels take on a meaning of their own. The Satanist movement was arguably created to oppose of the hypocrisy seen within the Christian communities. You can use the generic English language word "adversary" for Christians but they can also use that term against you. It's all dependent on your point of reference. When you start using upper case labels like "Satanist", then it isn't just a descriptive word. It's a label used by a culture to refer to a group.

    Reply
  33. Luiz Valle

    July 8, 2013 4:01 am

    Well said Jeremy; your words are concise and on the point. It is about time to change this nonsense of "criminalize" other people's entire rights in favor of specific spurious organized religions".

    Reply
  34. John Anderson

    September 2, 2013 2:17 pm

    Shit by any other name is still Pagan/Satanist/Witch/Wicca/Reconstructionist/Physic

    Same fucking thing

    Reply
  35. Skye ID

    March 23, 2015 8:11 am

    I was sucked into a Christian church where the leaders used severe coercion upon it's members to continuously tell "non-believers" that every other religion was wrong and evil, and that Pagans, Wiccans, Satanists, Luciferians were going to hell for worshiping the devil. They decided that Catholicism was not Christianity, but a separate religion that carried out rituals and had beliefs that angered god. Some of those rituals were worshiping the Virgin Mary, holding mass, having statues inside the church, and the belief that priests could transfigure the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, so therefore Catholics were wrong too and headed for hell unless they did the proper conversion ritual to become actual Christians.

    This religious intolerance was pounded into my mind for 6 terrible years, and we were warned that god would punish us if we didn't tell "unbelievers" everyday of our lives that they were going to suffer eternal torture. The church members and I were oppressed by this system of ignorance, blind faith and being forced to preach; thus many were pressured into obedience because of those threats about god's punishment. I was told often that god would punish me if I left the church, so I stayed there out of fear. Life was devoid of freedom, and overflowing with misery! After a few years, I started believing that it was the wrong of the leaders to enslave church members the way they did.

    One day it was discovered that one of the leaders of the organization did things that he frankly should have gone to prison for, and the church dissolved because members were shocked and disgusted by his behaviour; this man who was supposed to be so close to god and such a good Christian engaged in criminal acts, so there was no reason to continue to follow his teachings. When things dissolved, I was finally able to get away! Religious tolerance is not the kind of treatment one is likely to get from a Christian.

    Reply
  36. Laurie Poo

    February 2, 2019 6:16 pm

    Wow!! Thank you for this video! It's something I have been saying for a long time! I am a very proud Satanist, and when I go into public, I purposely wear as many sigils as possible. I may just be considered a jerky fool for doing it, but I got to the point where I refuse to hide in a 'closet' while everyone else gets to flamboyantly boast about Their christianity. They go around wearing their crosses, 'jesus-ing' everything, 'god blessing every one' and 'churching' everything. And that's fine, they have their freedom of religion, but I do too. I mostly get treated like a disease by christian people, getting dirty looks, whispers and people purposely shouting 'praise jesus', 'the devil is a liar' or how they're not going to burn in hell. Then there are the few that actually see I have more care and compassion than the christians they know. I think it's kind of a good thing though, because I believe that I'm making those people 'think', and question their beliefs and what they've been taught; although I personally don't care about anyone's opinion of me and what I do.

    Reply
  37. Claudia

    March 11, 2019 7:24 pm

    I know this is a old video but nonetheless an interesting one because it brings up one question that I have in mind for years now. I know that there are specific groups of people who call themselves satanists, who practice ritual abuse and murder, practices which I am totally not okay with. So how should I (as a pagan) not dissociate myself from satanism? Don't get me wrong Jeremy, you don't seem to be part of this small elite, at least from what I can tell about your videos (which I highly appreciate!), but how should I deal with this circumstance in a way that doesn't involve dissociation?

    Greetings from Austria

    Reply
  38. who cares

    April 29, 2019 10:00 pm

    You are labeling and generalizing AND divivding in your own way pretty much saying Christians are evil and against you… the irony! NO christian is coming to your door to do anything. you sound scared of that…I guarantee no christian is going to break your door down, dont be scuuured. Stop bothering them Christians let them be. They may no be calling you a "literal" Satanist, But 100% fact that the demons and gods your worshipping are OF SATAN/LUCIFER. the bible clearly mentions all the tricks of Satan. There are NO good spirits that you communicate with or gods to use for idols. SATAN is the MASTER OF DISGUISE AND LIES and your going to believe his demons are controllable and honest? you are fooled…sorry. you think you are mightier than the spirit your dealing with. One God ONE TRUTH. period. No hate just saying. Take it or leave it. life is very short. The anti-christ is going to make you or the coming generations take his mark and you'll ignorantly say I'm right here don't hurt me, there's a Christian right over there….》

    Reply

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